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A Conversation with Gen. Daniel R. Hokanson
When asked if he had any regrets about his time as chief of the National Guard Bureau about a month before his time in the position ended, Gen. Daniel R. Hokanson didn’t hesitate.
“I wish there was a 28-hour day,” he said.
“When you look at 24 hours in a day, there’s just never enough time,” Hokanson said. “There are issues and concerns that we need to address every day.”
The 29th NGB chief made good use of his 24-hour days. Over the course of his four years in the position, he completed nearly 500 engagements across the country and around the world, listening to Guard soldiers and airmen where they served or speaking with international leaders.
He was also a tireless advocate for the Guard on Capitol Hill, conducting more than 70 meetings with over 120 lawmakers or senior congressional staff.
Hokanson sat down last month with NATIONAL GUARD in the Pentagon press room to talk about his four years as NGB chief, some missions not yet complete and what he learned along the way.
Your last few months as chief have been eventful. The Army in February canceled the UH-60 Victor program. The Army National Guard was counting on getting roughly 400 Victors to replace aging A-model Black Hawks in its fleet. The cancellation dramatically upsets the Army Guard Black Hawk modernization plan. How will that void be filled?
I think the Army is looking at it very closely. At the end of the day, we have a requirement for Black Hawks. We have older ones, L models, and in some cases, A models, that need to be upgraded. There will be a plan there. I think we now have the opportunity to get more M models from the active component as well as buying more right off the assembly line.
Obviously, the Army oversees all of this, but I think they’re well aware of the benefits of pure fleeting in terms of maintenance, parts, training, all of those things. And so, I think there’s a lot of synergies we can leverage going into the future. And at the end of the day, that’s the way it is. And I really see our Guardsmen taking advantage of this, and we’re going to do the best we can to provide the best capability our nation can afford.
The UH-60Vs are rebuilt older aircraft. They’re not as advanced as the new Mike models. What will happen to the small number of Victors that have been fielded to Army Guard units?
I think we’ll still continue to use them until we can actually get to a pure fleet of Mike models. I’ve flown them. They’re very capable aircraft, and they have a lot of technological advances over the L model. Every time we get a Mike model, we try and get rid of the oldest ones we have, the Alphas and the Limas. So, the Victors are going to be in the program for quite a while.
The fiscal 2022 National Defense Authorization Act gave the Pentagon until September 2022 to provide Congress an implementation plan for incentive and special pay parity for those in the National Guard and Reserve to maintain the same proficiency as those in the active component. It’s nearly two years later and that plan has not been received. What’s going on?
I meet with Senator [Tammy] Duckworth [a retired Army Guard aviator representing Illinois] very frequently on this. We talk about this and the importance of it, and I know she and a couple other members were really behind this whole effort to really recognize, if you’re assuming the same level of risk, if you’re performing the same level of requirements, there should be no differentiation in terms of incentive pay.
I know that there have been reports that are due. I know cost is one of the issues that they’re working out here. The secretary of defense is working with them to come to a decision on how this is going to apply. I think it absolutely makes sense for aviators, explosive ordnance folks and those on jump status. I think what they’re trying to do is work through who is eligible among our medical personnel, because that’s really where the greatest cost is. I do bring it up frequently. I’m watching this very closely, because I think No. 1, it’s going to help with recruiting, but even more so retention.
When I fly with aviators, when I ask them what are those things that would really keep them in the organization? Obviously, medical coverage is one. Drill pay, the camaraderie also play into it. But pretty consistently they say, “Look, if, instead of getting paid 1/30th, if I’m meeting the same requirements as my active-duty counterpart, it would be a huge incentive for me to stay in the organization if I got the same flight pay as everybody else, assuming the same level of requirements that I’m meeting.”
The Air Force in March announced that the Maryland Air National Guard’s 175th Wing would soon transition from a fighter to a cyber-only mission. A Michigan Air Guard wing will likely lose its fighter mission next year. Some Air Guard F-16 units also stand to lose their fighter missions in the years ahead. Air Guard fighter units have some of the most experienced fighter pilots and maintainers in the Air Force. Such talent is in short supply in the service. Why is the Air Force not making more of an effort to retain this talent when faced with the near-peer threat of China?
The Air Force has some really hard decisions to make. And I’ve been very clear from Day 1, we have 25 fighter squadrons. I think we really need to retain all 25 fighter squadrons for all the reasons you discussed. There was a recent RAND study that looked at F-16 units. It found that Guard units are significantly less costly to operate. Our air crews have on average twice as many flying hours, twice as many instructors and evaluators and we’ve got a much greater percentage of skill-level seven maintainers.
If you look at the global demand for fighter aircraft, it exceeds our current inventory. Now, obviously, you have to pay for that as well, but I would argue that retaining fighter units in the Guard is a much better investment for our nation than keeping them in the active component.
What I've learned is, we have amazing people.
Your top legislative priority has been Zero-cost medical coverage for every member of the National Guard. You estimate 16% of Guardsmen have no medical coverage, which creates medical readiness issues. There’s legislation in the House, the Health Care for Our Troops Act, which would provide Zero-cost medical coverage to every member of the Guard and Reserve. Why do you think the bill hasn’t gotten more traction on Capitol Hill?
It’s really the cost. And when you look at that, we have to cost account for everybody taking it. But I would argue that not everybody’s going to take it. Some folks may want to stay with their health care provided by their employer, or they may have other systems that they belong to, that that they want to stay with.
I think by providing health care for them, it’s going to be a huge incentive for recruiting and another great incentive for retention. It also provides peace of mind for the family members, knowing that their service member can respond to whatever their nation asked them to do, whether it’s deploying overseas or if there’s an emergency in their community. They know that if anything happens to them, that they’ll have the medical care to get healthy, not only to go back to serve their nation, but also to help take care of their families. I think it gives us peace of mind, and I think it’s a low-cost investment for the payback.
When you look at the number of folks that we have medically nondeployable, if we can reduce that to the lowest number possible, then that means more ready units, more medically ready units. And at the end of the day, we’ve got to be as ready as absolutely possible to deter our adversaries.
What do you think it will take to push zero-cost TRICARE over the finish line?
I think it’s continued advocacy, not only at the national level, but from the grassroots. Not only from our soldiers and airmen and their families, but also from employers. I’ve had employers tell me, “Look, we don’t really need a tax break, but if you tell me that if somebody’s in the Guard they have their own health care, that helps.” That’s something that they can add to their bottom line.
And so, I think it’s just a recognition of what we ask our Guardsmen to do. Now we know we bring them in on orders before they deploy, and they have health care. But the challenge is going from one health care system to another, even going from TRICARE Reserve Select to TRICARE being on active duty. Sometimes you have to get all new providers. And we don’t want to disrupt the medical care that our service members are receiving just prior to a deployment.
We’ve got to do those things to make it easier to serve. Not only that, if you look at the civilian employment market right now, many companies that historically have not provided medical benefits now do so just to be competitive, and we need to keep pace with that, so that we make it easier for folks to stay in as opposed to them and their families having a hard discussion about the impact that it has on them that they wouldn’t have in a civilian market.
You mentioned you’ve spoken to employers. Have you spoken to soldiers and airmen and their family members about Zero-cost TRICARE?
Absolutely, almost everywhere I go. They bring it up before I do, and they ask me where things stand, how important health care would be to them and their families. And that’s really the nexus behind this.
When I became the chief, we were in COVID, and a lot of this stuff really came to the forefront. The concern over medical care and what we were asking our Guardsmen to do. And it just went on from there to the fact that, hey, when you’re [federal] Title 10 orders you’ve got health care. But if there’s a hurricane or a tornado or a wildfire in the community, and you go to respond immediately, you’re under state active duty, and a lot of times that falls under Workman’s Comp for the state. Folks also just feel more comfortable if they could work with one medical system, retain their doctors and have that peace of mind to know that they’re going to do what their nation or my community asked them to do, and if something happens to me, I know that I’m going to get taken care of.
The Air Force has a legislative proposal to transfer space units in the Air National Guard to the Space Force without the governors’ legally required consent. You didn’t concur with this action. What are your thoughts on this proposal?
I’ve been very clear throughout my time as the chief of the National Guard Bureau. My predecessor, General [Joseph L.] Lengyel was as well. And I think it’s really up to Congress at this time to make that decision on where we’re going to go. And my assurance to [Air Force] Secretary [Frank] Kendall was, whatever decision is made, the Guard will do what we always do. We’re going to salute. We’ll make it happen, and we’ll do the best we can to retain the readiness for our force and provide the capabilities our nation needs that we’re asked to provide.
The National Guard has a heck of a story to tell. Do we do a good enough job telling it?
We can never do a good enough job of telling our story. And, working with our PA team, we try and get out as much as we can to tell that story. What our Guardsmen do every day is really amazing. On any given day, about 45,000 are on orders, helping our communities, helping our nation, helping our combatant commanders. And we have to continue to tell that story, because day to day, it just becomes, Hey, all these things get done. They just get done. And there’s a Guardsman’s face and a Guardsman’s family and an employer behind them that help make it all possible.
We can never do a good enough job of telling our story.
Are maybe some of our soldiers and airmen a little too humble?
Yeah, and that’s the nature of who we are. We don’t seek all the publicity. We just do our job. And that’s one of the great things about the Guard. We don’t need the attention. We just do it because we love what we do. We love making a difference. We want to help our communities. We want to help our nation. But sometimes we must remind folks of what it takes to do that, not only the sacrifices of our individual Guardsmen, but their families. The sacrifices the employers make as well to allow us, our nation, to have that capability.
You and your wife, Kelly, have been staunch advocates for Guard families. What will it take for the unique challenges that Guard families face, such as the lack of access to services, for example, to be better understood by decision-makers in Washington?
This goes back to telling our story. We need our soldiers and airmen to communicate through their adjutants general the reasons that they’re staying in and the reasons that they’re not so that we can address some of these things. When you look at the time and the investment our nation makes in training somebody, and then you look at the time and investment that individual has made and doing everything they can to serve their country, we need to take away the barriers that cause them to make that decision between staying in and getting out.
That’s why every chance I can I bring Kelly with me to hear directly from the families, really the unfiltered, “Here’s what’s really going on.” These are the key issues. To us and then for her to advocate among the other spouses with the Joint Chiefs and the services as well, to identify those things that we as a department should be doing to make it easier for our folks to serve, or to take away those barriers that cause people to make that decision to leave.
Do you find that sometimes family members will tell Kelly things that you don’t hear through normal channels?
Absolutely. And I think all leaders realize at some point, things get filtered before they get to you, and that’s why I appreciate our spouses so much, because they’re there for the well-being of their service member. They’re very candid and unfiltered, and we need that. Because we have to know what’s really going on. Aside from being the one who will always tell me the truth, Kelly is able to have that conversation, so that the spouses and the family members can tell her and know that she’s going to take this to heart and do everything she can within the forums and venues that she’s in to not only highlight the issues, but propose potential solutions.
And, at the end of the day, we work very strongly with our J-1 and our G-1 and A-1 to address those questions that come up, get back to the families, but then also look for systemic issues across the organization, so that if it’s a legislative proposal or it’s just advocacy within the service, that we’re doing all of those things to recognize what the families are telling us and show that, hey, we’re here to address those.
You ever been surprised by things that were said to her that you didn’t know?
Yeah, which is good. Sometimes we get so focused on readiness and conducting the mission that we miss things right in front of us. It’s good to have another set of ears.
Looking back at your almost four years as chief, what moments, events or accomplishments give you the most satisfaction?
I would just say, waking up every day and going to bed every night knowing that there are Guardsmen out there doing things that I may never see or hear of, but they’re doing it because they want to. They want to make a difference. They love serving their country. They love serving their community. Their family and their employer support them.
I kind of go back to that fight or flight response. I read all the amazing articles about what our Guardsmen are doing. They’re the ones that fight. They see a car accident, they don’t drive by, they jump out and they help. They see a forest fire coming or a hurricane, they show up at their armory without being asked, because they want to make a difference. They want to help. We look at our formations deploying overseas. If a unit is short, we have a lot of volunteers that want to go so that they can do their part. And knowing that our nation has that capability is amazing.
I mean, you look at when I came in under COVID. We had civil disturbances. We had the events surrounding January 6. We had multiple overseas deployments. And too many disasters to even account for. And in every case, our Guardsmen met every single mission. Never once did we say we can’t do that, because our Guardsmen always stepped forward and said, “I will.” And they did.
Retaining fighter units in the Guard is a much better investment for our nation than keeping them in the active component.
What have you learned?
I learned that I have a lot to learn. I think I was probably my smartest when I was a lieutenant colonel, when I thought I knew everything every day. Since then, I realized how much more there is to learn. When you look at 24 hours in a day, there’s just never enough time. There are issues and concerns that we need to address every day.
But the thing I learned most of all is the value that our Guardsmen bring. Like I said earlier, they’ll answer every call. They’ll do whatever they’re asked to do, and many will volunteer or jump into harm’s way. It’s because that’s what they signed up to do. And they signed up for it because they saw the Guardsmen before them. They saw their active-duty counterparts.
At the end of the day, there are many things that need to be accomplished by our nation and our country, but somebody has to actually do it. And what I’ve learned is we have amazing people that will always fill that void so that we have somebody there to do those things that absolutely have to get done.
Looking back on your four years, do you have any regrets?
I wish there was a 28-hour day. I tried to do everything I could so that our soldiers and airmen and their families were taken care of and could do everything they were asked to do. And, I think in hindsight, you’ll always look back. Could I have done this better? Should I have done that better? And I think we as an organization have so many amazing people at every level that if there was a void or something I missed, that we had subordinate leaders that recognized that and made the adjustment.
Any surprises looking back over these four years?
I think the surprises are often endless. You go back to 2018, we didn’t see COVID coming. We didn’t see a lot of the disturbances that happen in our country coming. They were, of course, the result of many things that happened. But the great thing is, they teach us flexibility and foundational skills, that if we do get surprised, we just fall back on our training and the fact that our nation has this incredibly capable force that can adjust to do just about anything.
This all really goes back to the value proposition of the Guard. You know, at the end of the day, we exist to fight our nation’s wars, and that costs a lot of money to man us, to train us and equip us to do it, but because we’re manned, trained and equipped to do so, that when those surprises occur, when those unforecasted events happen, or when those forecasted events happen, like a hurricane or a deployment, because we have that resident skill set, we can adjust and respond however our nation needs us.
General, you sound like you love the soldiers and airmen of the National Guard. Do you think they’re truly appreciated by the nation?
They are, but sometimes the nation just doesn’t know how to appreciate them. The people who appreciate them the most are those who come face to face with them. You know, it’s somebody coming out of a helicopter to rescue somebody in a dire situation. It’s a soldier walking door to door after a hurricane asking if people need help, if they need water, if they need food. You know, it’s that stability in the homeland, I think, that they really appreciate. It’s also the fact that we have 25,000 Guardsmen deployed forward every day that are deterring our adversaries or deterring events from escalating. Most people don’t even know that.
Now, we know that, and the families know that, and the employers know that, but in many cases, we don’t want our country to worry about that, just to know that that’s taken care of. I think the folks that see us firsthand realize that. I think the great thing is we give them peace of mind that they don’t need to worry about that.
AT A GLANCE: Gen. Daniel R. Hokanson
BORN: Daniel Robert Hokanson, June 27, 1963 (Happy Camp, California)
FAMILY: Wife (Kelly), three children
EDUCATION: U.S. Military Academy, West Point, N.Y., B.S. Mechanical Engineering (Aerospace), 1986; Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, Calif., M.A. International Security and Civil Military Relations, 2000; U.S. Naval War College, Newport R.I., M.A. National Security and Strategic Studies, 2001
COMMISSIONING SOURCE: U.S. Military Academy
MILITARY SERVICE: Active-component Army 1986–1995; Oregon Army National Guard 1995–2024
PREVIOUS ASSIGNMENTS: Director, Army National Guard, Arlington, Va., 2019-2020; Vice Chief, National Guard Bureau, Arlington, Va., 2016–2019; Deputy Commander, U.S. Northern Command, Peterson Air Force Base, Colo., 2015–2016; Oregon Adjutant General, Salem, Ore., 2013–2015; Commander, 41st Infantry Brigade Combat Team, Multi-National Corps-Iraq and Portland, Ore., 2008–2010
OVERSEAS OPERATIONS: Just Cause (Panama), Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan) and Iraqi Freedom
ALSO NOTABLE: Command pilot with more than 2,500 flight hours, including over 50 hours in combat, in the AH-64 Apache, OH-58 Kiowa, TH-55 Osage, UH-1 Huey and UH-60 Black Hawk. A former member of the U.S. World Helicopter Team.
Source: National Guard Bureau
